User blog:GarageShackGamer/Regarding Undertale Verse's Stats
Introduction Many people seem to have this argument over what tier the UT verse should be at. I want to get out of the way the reasonings for my stats for the verse. Before I Begin I think I should note the giant elephant in the room, vsbattleswiki. I in no way am denouncing them, I am stating how I view the stats as, and my justification for why they’re this way. Check Stats/Internal Stats In Undertale There are two different kinds of stats within Undertale, the check stats are the stats the player is able to see in-game, and the internal stats aren’t in game and can only be found within the games files. This is a major argument I need to get out of the way. In no way should we take the check stats or internal stats seriously. One of the reasons is the possibility that the stats aren’t accurate whatsoever, as certain monsters openly refuse to give you their stats. This means it shouldn't be applicable as you can't take the monsters word seriously. Mind you, the internal stats for Glyde is ATK 9 and DEF -20, now tell me how he has a -20 DEF stat, but doesn’t get one-shot? Now the argument for that could be, “Oh, that’s just a secret boss” and fine, let’s go with that idea. The MAD Dummy has a DEF stat of “YES”, and he also has a DEF of -40 in the beginning of the fight and before you use the “he’s a ghost” argument, Napstablook has stats of 10 ATK and 10 DEF. Why are two ghost stats different? Especially since Napstablook is capable of harming MAD Dummy then what does a DEF of YES mean? How should we take it? Another example is Toriel and Asgore, both have the same stats. Now you could argue how Toriel’s internal stats are FAR lower, but her internal stats are only ever -99999 when you get the chance to off-guard kill her, compare that to Asgore’s internal statsand he’s actually far lower than her. Yet, Toriel gets killed far faster than Asgore does. She gets one-shotted by a LV 3 Frisk. Yet when you fight Asgore, at a LV like 11, he still doesn’t get one-shotted mind you once again his internal DEF stats are far lower than Toriel’s(when she isn’t off-guard killed). Finally, Photoshop Flowey himself after a small while in the fight can have his DEF stat dropped to 0 , yet he doesn't get one-shotted and still takes a number of hits to defeat. I can put in a lot more contradictions to how stats work but to put it simply, stats should not be taken seriously for scaling, there are a lot of contradictions and weird stats used within UT. Annoying Dog Annoying Dog represents the avatar of Toby Fox and barked and created the UT verse, logically putting him above all the other God tiers, even the anomaly themself. It’s further proven that he’s above the anomaly as he can stop the anomaly from trying to hack certain moments. Likely omnipresent as he appears everywhere within the game. So Annoying Dog would be at least 2-C, likely higher, with omnipresence. Chara Dreemurr Now chara is the simplest one to do. Chara one-shotted the “World” of Undertale. Now then counterargument to this is, since they one-shotted the world that merely means the underground. This is incorrect however as they crashed the entire game and the previous file was gone, meaning they destroyed the entire game. You could argue via FUN Values, and san's statement, Chara destroyed multiple timelines, the number would be certainly under 1001 though since F.U.N. values only show about 10 different possibilities. Not to mention Chara would be superior to full power Asriel, as Chara was capable of gaining more determination then Frisk at the end of genocide route, while Asriel even at full power didn’t overpower Frisk in determination. If you’d really like to argue, during Chara’s scene you can’t exit the game whatsoever to “reset” while Asriel you can. Chara also fuses their soul with the anomaly, which you could argue makes them possibly higher. Chara also has immeasurable speed for moving within a timeless void. Chara also has the possibility of being omnipresent on a 4th Dimensional Scalefrom what they say. So this would make Chara''' 2-C,' '''2-C, possibly higher with fused soul, '''with immeasurable speed, or possibly omnipresence. Asriel Dreemurr Asriel was capable of destroying the timeline, some counter-arguments might be he didn’t actually destroy the timeline; however, this is contradicted by the fact that after the attack, Frisk could no longer move. Not to mention Asriel did this feat with a “fraction of his real power” meaning he’s even more powerful. Asriel will also have immeasurable speed as he moved within a place where he destroyed the timeline. So this would make Asriel '''Low 2-C in base, low 2-C, possibly 2-C, with full power', and immeasurable speed. The Anomaly The Anomaly outright controls Frisk throughout the entire game. Chara states the power of the Anomaly awakened them. They also took no damage from the destruction of the game. Anomaly’s speed is unknown as they don’t have any speed feats of their own. So this would make the Anomaly 2-C via scaling to Chara. Frisk Without any determination Frisk is just a regular human; however, Frisk has shown to be able to hold their own against monsters. Frisk is also capable of somewhat harming Photoshop Flowey in this state . Their AP, with some determination, would be at least Wall Level for being able to take down Asgore who is superior to Mettaton who crashed through a wall . Frisk’s best feats come from their durability as they tanked a timeline busting attack from Asriel at full determination; however, their AP is unknown as they can’t harm Asriel whatsoever. So this would make Frisk 10-A, possibly 9-C without determination, 9-B with some determination, and unknown at full determination. Sans The Skeleton Sans is most known for having the hax known as Karmic Retribution or “KR” for short. Physically he’d be at least comparable to Frisk, as he implies during their second date that if he never made the promise with Toriel he would've killed them. Whether this refers to base Frisk or Frisk with some determination is unknown. His Karmic retribution can ignore conventional durability by removing invincibility frames. Sans himself can dodge an attack from Frisk’s knife before it makes a sound giving him at least Supersonic reaction speed. His durability is quite controversial, as many people think he only has 1 HP, but even after being hit by such a powerful attack with his guard down and killing intent at maximum, he was still capable of getting up and walking off the screen . So this would make Sans 10-A to high 9-C, possibly 9-B, likely higher with Karmic Retribution. Photoshop Flowey Photoshop Flowey's hax revolves around being able to save and load during his fight giving him time manipulation. His AP is unknown though however, all that is known is that it should logically be above Frisk and the entire underground's AP, surpassing even Asgore's. He's also capable of being somewhat harmed by Frisk, meaning that Photoshop Flowey himself is still a 3D being with 4D hax. Not to mention when Photoshop Flowey crashes the game it is in no way comparable to Chara's feat, as the game is still intact(hence why Frisk is still alive), and the feat is therefore not quantifiable and likely just 4th wall breaking. So this would make Photoshop Flowey Unknown. ''' Note: When newer character profiles are added, Blog will be updated.''' Category:Blog posts